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Headword: *(umei=s, w)= *megarei=s, ou)/te tri/toi ou)/te te/tartoi
Adler number: upsilon,108
Translated headword: you o Megarians are neither third nor fourth
Vetting Status: high
It is a proverbial part of an oracle, thus; "a Thessalian horse, a Spartan woman, and men who drink the water of fine Arethoussa;[1] but there are better still than them -- those who dwell between Tiryns[2] and Arcadia rich in flocks: the linen-cuirassed Argives, spurs of war. But you, Aigians,[3] are neither third nor fourth nor twelfth, neither in in repute nor in number."[4] Mnaseas[5] recounts that when the Aigians of Achaea conquered the Aetolians in a sea-battle and captured a fifty-oared ship of theirs, they dedicated a tenth of the spoils at Pytho,[6] and they enquired who were the best of Greeks; and the Pythia answered them in the words stated above.[7] Ion too recounts that the oracle was given to the Aigians.[8] Some, however, think that it was given to the Megarians and they say "you, o Megarians, [are] neither third nor fourth". Thus too Callimachus in his little Epigrams: "and of the poor nymph, as of Megarians, neither word nor number".[9]
Greek Original:
*(umei=s, w)= *megarei=s, ou)/te tri/toi ou)/te te/tartoi: xrhsmou= komma/tio/n e)sti paroimiazo/menon ou(/tws: i(/ppon *qessalikh\n *lakedaimoni/an te gunai=ka, a)/ndras d', oi(\ pi/nousin u(/dwr kalh=s *)areqou/shs. a)ll' e)/ti kai\ tw=n ei)si\n a)mei/nones, oi(/ te meshgu\ *ti/runqos nai/ousi kai\ *)arkadi/hs polumh/lou, *)argei=oi linoqw/rhkes, ke/ntra ptole/moio. u(mei=s d', *ai)gie/es, ou)/te tri/toi ou)/te te/tartoi ou)/te duwde/katoi, ou)/t' e)n lo/gw| ou)/t' e)n a)riqmw=|. i(storei= de\ *mnase/as, o(/ti *ai)giei=s oi( e)n *)axai/a| katanaumaxh/santes *ai)twlou\s kai\ labo/ntes penthko/ntoron au)tw=n, deka/thn *puqoi= a)natiqe/ntes, h)rw/twn ti/nes ei)=en krei/ttous tw=n *(ellh/nwn: h( de\ *puqi/a e)/xrhsen au)toi=s ta\ prokei/mena. kai\ *)/iwn de\ *ai)gieu=si doqh=nai to\n xrhsmo\n i(storei=. tine\s de\ oi)/ontai *megareu=sin ei)rh=sqai au)to\n kai\ profe/rontai, u(mei=s d', w)= *megarei=s, ou)/te tri/toi ou)/te te/tartoi. w(s kai\ *kalli/maxos e)pi\ toi=s *)epigrammati/ois: th=s de\ talai/nhs nu/mfhs, w(s *megare/wn, ou) lo/gos ou)d' a)riqmo/s.
Entry also in Photius (upsilon47 Theodoridis), taken to come from Pausanias the Atticist (upsilon5); cf. also the scholia to Theocritus, Idylls 14.48; and proverbial in Zenobius 1.48 and elsewhere. For the oracle see already alphaiota 45.
[1] See alpha 3821; cf. Strabo, who quotes the oracle and places Arethoussa, a fountain, in Chalcis (Euboea).
[2] tau 653; Google maps location at web address 1.
[3] alphaiota 55; Google maps location at web address 2.
[4] cf. Greek Anthology 14.73.
[5] Of Patrai; a student of Eratosthenes, according to epsilon 2898. Quoted in zeta 17, pi 2212, pi 3136, sigma 12. For his fragments see Cappelletto (below).
[6] i.e. the oracle at Delphi; pi 3137 etc.
[7] Mnaseas FHG fr.50 (3.157ff).
[8] Ion [iota 487] fr.17 FHG (2.51) = PMG 743 Page -- but the name may be an error here (so Bernhardy).
[9] Callimachus, Epigrammata 25.5-6 Pfeiffer.
Cappelletto, P. (ed.), I frammenti di Mnasea: Introduzione testo e commento, Milan 2003
Associated internet addresses:
Web address 1,
Web address 2
Keywords: clothing; daily life; definition; ethics; food; geography; historiography; history; imagery; military affairs; poetry; proverbs; religion; women; zoology
Translated by: Ioannis Doukas on 20 July 2009@10:31:34.
Vetted by:
David Whitehead (augmented notes and keywords; tweaks and cosmetics) on 21 July 2009@03:32:59.
David Whitehead (more keywords; cosmetics) on 9 August 2011@09:02:04.
David Whitehead on 20 November 2013@05:25:13.
David Whitehead (coding and other cosmetics) on 29 May 2016@10:51:16.


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